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	<title>Comments on: How Could You Do This?</title>
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		<title>By: Letter from the Editor: Our First Birthday &#124; Trespass</title>
		<link>http://www.trespassmag.com/how-could-you-do-this/comment-page-1/#comment-16278</link>
		<dc:creator>Letter from the Editor: Our First Birthday &#124; Trespass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 11:42:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trespassmag.com/?p=1954#comment-16278</guid>
		<description>[...] How Could You Do This? - the issue of Victim Impact Statements [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] How Could You Do This? &#8211; the issue of Victim Impact Statements [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Liv</title>
		<link>http://www.trespassmag.com/how-could-you-do-this/comment-page-1/#comment-415</link>
		<dc:creator>Liv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 10:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trespassmag.com/?p=1954#comment-415</guid>
		<description>Look, absolutely in regards to point number 2. In regards to point numer 1, I agree with Andy Geeves (above). If this kid feels no remorse for what he did, then it pretty much goes without saying he&#039;s sociopathic, which has huge rammifications when you look at the possibility of intent, or indeed his sentencing, or any legal aspect of the case.

I understand the point of Victim Impact Statements in regards to letting the victims feel as if they are being heard - but I don&#039;t know if it works as a blanket rule across all situations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look, absolutely in regards to point number 2. In regards to point numer 1, I agree with Andy Geeves (above). If this kid feels no remorse for what he did, then it pretty much goes without saying he&#8217;s sociopathic, which has huge rammifications when you look at the possibility of intent, or indeed his sentencing, or any legal aspect of the case.</p>
<p>I understand the point of Victim Impact Statements in regards to letting the victims feel as if they are being heard &#8211; but I don&#8217;t know if it works as a blanket rule across all situations.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyndall</title>
		<link>http://www.trespassmag.com/how-could-you-do-this/comment-page-1/#comment-407</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyndall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trespassmag.com/?p=1954#comment-407</guid>
		<description>Interesting piece; reasonable sentence. 

Two points:

1. The purpose of reading out the victim impact statements in court is to involve victims in the court process and make them feel heard. Its also supposed to benefit the judge. 

2. Its natural to assume that everyone has your goodness. They don&#039;t. This guy may be wracked with guilt and go on to live a blameless life; he may not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting piece; reasonable sentence. </p>
<p>Two points:</p>
<p>1. The purpose of reading out the victim impact statements in court is to involve victims in the court process and make them feel heard. Its also supposed to benefit the judge. </p>
<p>2. Its natural to assume that everyone has your goodness. They don&#8217;t. This guy may be wracked with guilt and go on to live a blameless life; he may not.</p>
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		<title>By: Liv</title>
		<link>http://www.trespassmag.com/how-could-you-do-this/comment-page-1/#comment-399</link>
		<dc:creator>Liv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jan 2009 04:06:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trespassmag.com/?p=1954#comment-399</guid>
		<description>Okay, just popping in with the next development of the case. The driver has been jailed for two years. When the verdict was read out, the families of the victims clapped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, just popping in with the next development of the case. The driver has been jailed for two years. When the verdict was read out, the families of the victims clapped.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.trespassmag.com/how-could-you-do-this/comment-page-1/#comment-393</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 11:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trespassmag.com/?p=1954#comment-393</guid>
		<description>SJ, Sandi, Liv and everyone, I think getting tangled up in conversations about  the level of driver vs passenger culpability or how much of a victim/perpetrator anyone was in this situation is interesting but ultimately unfruitful. The situation provokes such strong emotion that it&#039;s like trying to convince an atheist that God exists or a Marxist that they should eat McDonalds. You can argue until the cows come home that the driver is guilty as sin or the passengers knew they were risking their lives by hopping in the car but at the end of the day, costly exchanges have taken place, people get  upset and noone changes their opinion or learns anything.

Not only are none of us familiar enough with the circumstances to do anything other than speculate about these kinds of details, but this pointless speculation also distracts us from the deeper, more important issue here. Time spent establishing blame is time wasted. Working out the best way in which to proceed from here in order to quell intense post-crash suffering is time worthy. There has to be a better approach than the one that was adopted in this situation. A public space in which all those affected by the crash can share their stories whilst on an equal footing is a good way to start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SJ, Sandi, Liv and everyone, I think getting tangled up in conversations about  the level of driver vs passenger culpability or how much of a victim/perpetrator anyone was in this situation is interesting but ultimately unfruitful. The situation provokes such strong emotion that it&#8217;s like trying to convince an atheist that God exists or a Marxist that they should eat McDonalds. You can argue until the cows come home that the driver is guilty as sin or the passengers knew they were risking their lives by hopping in the car but at the end of the day, costly exchanges have taken place, people get  upset and noone changes their opinion or learns anything.</p>
<p>Not only are none of us familiar enough with the circumstances to do anything other than speculate about these kinds of details, but this pointless speculation also distracts us from the deeper, more important issue here. Time spent establishing blame is time wasted. Working out the best way in which to proceed from here in order to quell intense post-crash suffering is time worthy. There has to be a better approach than the one that was adopted in this situation. A public space in which all those affected by the crash can share their stories whilst on an equal footing is a good way to start.</p>
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		<title>By: Vic</title>
		<link>http://www.trespassmag.com/how-could-you-do-this/comment-page-1/#comment-392</link>
		<dc:creator>Vic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2009 01:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trespassmag.com/?p=1954#comment-392</guid>
		<description>Great piece Liv!
It&#039;s great to see that we can all express our opinions and not get abused!

Andrew is spot on, both the victims and perpetrators have to stand on equal grounds. But in this case I think the line between the perpetrators and victims are blurred. Yes, the kid did speed and ended up killing his mates and hence the responsibility for their lives, but in this he is also a victim to a car accident. If no deaths were involved and only the driver was seriously injured, he would have came back from 3 years of physical therapy and people would be giving words of encouragement and support, not berating him. 
I feel the problem we have here is that everyone is a victim. The driver is the easiest to blame and as Sam said we are quick to accept the Eye for an Eye compensation. There is no right or wrong. Everybody does stupid things, it&#039;s when it affects our lives that we take notice of our stupidity.

For the Court to arrange such a hearing after such a long period of time will only open up old wounds for both the parents and the driver. If this is a public exercise to create controversies at the expense of both parties I think the court has succeeded</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great piece Liv!<br />
It&#8217;s great to see that we can all express our opinions and not get abused!</p>
<p>Andrew is spot on, both the victims and perpetrators have to stand on equal grounds. But in this case I think the line between the perpetrators and victims are blurred. Yes, the kid did speed and ended up killing his mates and hence the responsibility for their lives, but in this he is also a victim to a car accident. If no deaths were involved and only the driver was seriously injured, he would have came back from 3 years of physical therapy and people would be giving words of encouragement and support, not berating him.<br />
I feel the problem we have here is that everyone is a victim. The driver is the easiest to blame and as Sam said we are quick to accept the Eye for an Eye compensation. There is no right or wrong. Everybody does stupid things, it&#8217;s when it affects our lives that we take notice of our stupidity.</p>
<p>For the Court to arrange such a hearing after such a long period of time will only open up old wounds for both the parents and the driver. If this is a public exercise to create controversies at the expense of both parties I think the court has succeeded</p>
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		<title>By: Miss Sandi</title>
		<link>http://www.trespassmag.com/how-could-you-do-this/comment-page-1/#comment-389</link>
		<dc:creator>Miss Sandi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 21:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trespassmag.com/?p=1954#comment-389</guid>
		<description>SJ, you are right, being in a car is not the same as driving a car. Driving 30km/h over the speed limit is silly. How long did they drive so fast for? Did someone say &quot;stop, this is unsafe.&quot; We&#039;ll never know. But, in the hoon, macho, we&#039;re too invincible society we live in, we can only imagine. My issue is that I don&#039;t think this was an ordinary car trip. This wasn&#039;t you or me popping down to the shops. This was a full blown dangerous, speeding trip. That had probably occurred many times before. They all, at some point, were probably involved in reckless behaviour. At the end of the day, we&#039;ll never really know, because we weren&#039;t there. 

I think a dose of empathy would do the world some good. Andrew&#039;s suggestion, that both parties need to have a say, is spot on. 

I think everyone needs to remember that this was not an attack -  a young man did not approach four others and kill them, with pure murder as his intention. A young man was driving a car with his four friends and an accident occurred. The same way a mother drives her car and has an accident and her two children die. The boys&#039; accident occurred because they were being foolish and reckless. We can only imagine them all spurring each other on, to drive faster, to speed more. It doesn&#039;t matter how much you want to paint the driver as horrible, there is no way in hell he locked his four mates in a car and took them on a joy ride, unwillingly. They were all in the car, participating in this mess. Yes, the driver was the person in &quot;control&quot;, but don&#039;t tell me four other young men could not have stopped the situation, had they have thought about it a little more. This has happened many times before, and will happen again. The real problem is that people don&#039;t learn. Maybe if people respected their lives, and others, a little more, these situations would be greatly avoided.

SJ, I agree that the driver should pay for what he has done. He must. I would expect nothing less if my friend, or son, had died. But I don&#039;t believe he is evil. I don&#039;t believe he is the only person at fault. I don&#039;t believe such Court methods achieve anything, if they are one-sided, as Andrew pointed out.

What I do believe is that people can learn from their mistakes. People can change. People can evolve. For all we know, with the right assistance, the driver could grow to do something truly wonderful for this world. Everything happens for a reason. That is the only truth that I firmly believe. We just don&#039;t know what it is yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SJ, you are right, being in a car is not the same as driving a car. Driving 30km/h over the speed limit is silly. How long did they drive so fast for? Did someone say &#8220;stop, this is unsafe.&#8221; We&#8217;ll never know. But, in the hoon, macho, we&#8217;re too invincible society we live in, we can only imagine. My issue is that I don&#8217;t think this was an ordinary car trip. This wasn&#8217;t you or me popping down to the shops. This was a full blown dangerous, speeding trip. That had probably occurred many times before. They all, at some point, were probably involved in reckless behaviour. At the end of the day, we&#8217;ll never really know, because we weren&#8217;t there. </p>
<p>I think a dose of empathy would do the world some good. Andrew&#8217;s suggestion, that both parties need to have a say, is spot on. </p>
<p>I think everyone needs to remember that this was not an attack &#8211;  a young man did not approach four others and kill them, with pure murder as his intention. A young man was driving a car with his four friends and an accident occurred. The same way a mother drives her car and has an accident and her two children die. The boys&#8217; accident occurred because they were being foolish and reckless. We can only imagine them all spurring each other on, to drive faster, to speed more. It doesn&#8217;t matter how much you want to paint the driver as horrible, there is no way in hell he locked his four mates in a car and took them on a joy ride, unwillingly. They were all in the car, participating in this mess. Yes, the driver was the person in &#8220;control&#8221;, but don&#8217;t tell me four other young men could not have stopped the situation, had they have thought about it a little more. This has happened many times before, and will happen again. The real problem is that people don&#8217;t learn. Maybe if people respected their lives, and others, a little more, these situations would be greatly avoided.</p>
<p>SJ, I agree that the driver should pay for what he has done. He must. I would expect nothing less if my friend, or son, had died. But I don&#8217;t believe he is evil. I don&#8217;t believe he is the only person at fault. I don&#8217;t believe such Court methods achieve anything, if they are one-sided, as Andrew pointed out.</p>
<p>What I do believe is that people can learn from their mistakes. People can change. People can evolve. For all we know, with the right assistance, the driver could grow to do something truly wonderful for this world. Everything happens for a reason. That is the only truth that I firmly believe. We just don&#8217;t know what it is yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Webster</title>
		<link>http://www.trespassmag.com/how-could-you-do-this/comment-page-1/#comment-387</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Webster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trespassmag.com/?p=1954#comment-387</guid>
		<description>Wow, such a debate, I will have to engage at a less ridiculous hour.

My first thought is that this kind of &quot;punishment&quot; (in every sense, for the driver and for the family) is similar to the debate over the death penalty. The penalty allows victims to feel a sense of retribution but is arguably a less harsh punishment than life imprisonment. We&#039;re still in a world where people who are emotionally wounded are quick to accept &quot;an eye for an eye&quot; as a form of emotional compensation. However, this case is different in that the driver is obviously affected by the tragedy to a very similar degree and that should be taken onto account when putting him through organised trauma.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, such a debate, I will have to engage at a less ridiculous hour.</p>
<p>My first thought is that this kind of &#8220;punishment&#8221; (in every sense, for the driver and for the family) is similar to the debate over the death penalty. The penalty allows victims to feel a sense of retribution but is arguably a less harsh punishment than life imprisonment. We&#8217;re still in a world where people who are emotionally wounded are quick to accept &#8220;an eye for an eye&#8221; as a form of emotional compensation. However, this case is different in that the driver is obviously affected by the tragedy to a very similar degree and that should be taken onto account when putting him through organised trauma.</p>
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		<title>By: SJ</title>
		<link>http://www.trespassmag.com/how-could-you-do-this/comment-page-1/#comment-386</link>
		<dc:creator>SJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trespassmag.com/?p=1954#comment-386</guid>
		<description>&quot;That FIVE young men are to blame - because each allowed the situation to escalate.&quot;  Being in a car is not the same as driving a car, and this is quite an assumption.  If I drive my friend home after a night out, and kill her, she&#039;s as much to blame is she ? 

I&#039;m sorry, but if someone told me someone I loved had been killed by someone else&#039;s thoughtless actions, I would never be able to feel pity for their guilt.  Being involved in an accident is quite different to endangering people, which is what I see this as.

Personally I just don&#039;t feel there should be such a sob story for someone responsible for killing others via reckless behaviour. (NOT a blameless accident)  I hear and understand all these points of oh how awful, he has to live with it for the rest of his life, nobody understands it like he does, he was there, but you know what, there is a simple method of avoiding such torment and guilt, don&#039;t kill your friends in a high speed stunt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;That FIVE young men are to blame &#8211; because each allowed the situation to escalate.&#8221;  Being in a car is not the same as driving a car, and this is quite an assumption.  If I drive my friend home after a night out, and kill her, she&#8217;s as much to blame is she ? </p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry, but if someone told me someone I loved had been killed by someone else&#8217;s thoughtless actions, I would never be able to feel pity for their guilt.  Being involved in an accident is quite different to endangering people, which is what I see this as.</p>
<p>Personally I just don&#8217;t feel there should be such a sob story for someone responsible for killing others via reckless behaviour. (NOT a blameless accident)  I hear and understand all these points of oh how awful, he has to live with it for the rest of his life, nobody understands it like he does, he was there, but you know what, there is a simple method of avoiding such torment and guilt, don&#8217;t kill your friends in a high speed stunt.</p>
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		<title>By: Liv</title>
		<link>http://www.trespassmag.com/how-could-you-do-this/comment-page-1/#comment-385</link>
		<dc:creator>Liv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 12:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trespassmag.com/?p=1954#comment-385</guid>
		<description>Andrew, absolutely. ABSOLUTELY. In a situation like this, there is more to be gained by giving the &#039;perpetrator&#039; and the &#039;victims&#039; equal footing to express themselves. If the courts are genuinely interested in a scheme that is effective and bears a well rounded impact, then this is what they should consider looking at.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, absolutely. ABSOLUTELY. In a situation like this, there is more to be gained by giving the &#8216;perpetrator&#8217; and the &#8216;victims&#8217; equal footing to express themselves. If the courts are genuinely interested in a scheme that is effective and bears a well rounded impact, then this is what they should consider looking at.</p>
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